Curse

StarGatherer · Jul 09, 2005, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Is it just me or have the rest of you noticed complaints about issues with different professions. Monks are too high and mighty,warriors too stupid,necros unwanted,elementalists too squishy,mesmers?,rangers suck. i think the peeps complaining arent really playing the game as a group.(as i understood it before i bought the game that its about working together (I have played most professions except necro so i have no basis to tell if you are really unwanted) and i can say that the best groups i have been in have been groups with ppl who understand that we are all support for each other first and foremost.depending on how you want to help out and what secondary you use for example take my R/Mo i have a hard time getting into a groups sometimes but i am welcomed by monks because i carry a res and can spam healing spring if needed(just need to switch weapon to rod and focus item for quick energy)which helps them and the team , not to mention the dmg i am capable of.Guild wars is not a game about who can make the best character but about who can make the best team.remember that when making your character decisions and choosing skills.i have found the more you help each other the stronger you are.Every profession has great strength and the funny thing is it takes another character to fully utilize it sometimes...the point is to enjoy together.course you can conplete the game with Alesia the inept but what fun is that.

none · Jul 09, 2005, 02:32 PM // 14:32

fully /agree

Tutompop · Jul 09, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

well you lumped all the sterotypes together, but I would wager 99% of anybody reading this forum doesn't share all of them with every class let alone all the time. I have a necro and few people know when i'm working so I made a monk. Apparently i'm a good monk even though its twice as hard to play my necro effectively as it is my monk assuming the group doesn't call energy/targets.

I would like to point out that these sterotypes are being formed off of bad players not bad classes. I've seen all the classes played poorly and give them a bad reputation, I've also seen all the classes played well.

Finally, as for monks being high and mighty. Ya, we know we're not needed all the time but the sad fact is that 1% of the time doesn't occur all that often unless you setup your group for it. (all ranger UW for example) We took our abuse early on in the game with the people who randomly invite people zoning in or the Noober Mcpwnage w/mo who thinks hes god. Those of us who didn't go insane learned from our mistakes and pick our groups more carefully because everybody wants a "good" monk but not everybody is competent enough to have a good monk. There are groups out there that are so horribly deficient of any teamwork/common sense that no amount of monks can keep alive.

Haung Yu · Jul 09, 2005, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Some people think that Mesmers do nothing but shoot at their enemies with their staves... and then wonder why the dead enemies were hurling insults and swearing at their Mesmer.

eventhorizen · Jul 09, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

lol, yup.

Almost every monk I meet considers themselves either the greatest tactician thats ever lived, or the most important creature in Tyria apart from Dwayna.
A good monk, which is rare, is often the single most important team member. I was in a group doing a mission where lots of poison was flying about. I said to the monk, 'monk im dying'. 5 seconds later I fall over dead from health degen.
I mean WTF? It doesnt matter if your the greatest character ever in the history of Guild Wars, your job is to keep us alive, so you do it period.

Same with warriors. My main is a Warrior, but I totally hate other warriors. If im in a team with another warrior they will start competing with me instantly, theyll use sprint inbetween mobs for some reason, and in higher levels due to their high death ratio theyll usually be massivly tanked and about as dangerous as a cold.

Anyway each class has its faux pax stereotype, sad fact is thats the most common type of the class you will encounter.

Red Leader · Jul 09, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tutompop

I would like to point out that these sterotypes are being formed off of bad players not bad classes. I've seen all the classes played poorly and give them a bad reputation, I've also seen all the classes played well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eventhorizen

Almost every monk I meet considers themselves either the greatest tactician thats ever lived, or the most important creature in Tyria apart from Dwayna.

I think these two quotes illustrate the rub. I too have grumbled to myself about stupid warriors, frontline standing elementalists, and all the other stereotypes. But as Tutompop points out I am not really complaining about the classes but the players. And I think Eventhorizen points out the underlying unity behind all bad players. They think they are the key to the party and everyone is else is just support. Thus if the whole party dies because the warrior ran headlong into a mob, the warrior wonders why the monk wasnt healing and the elementalist raining fire so that he could do his, the MOST important, job.

And although there are plenty of good players out there who can work together like a well-oiled death machine the fact is that games like these tend to attract people who believe the game revolves around them. Just look at the storyline. Everyone is a hero who himself saves the world. So bad players think theyre the hero and everyone else is just a sidekick.

velvetbunny · Jul 09, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

As an ELE i love a Necro on my team when they use Well of Power or Blood Ritual.

As a MONK, i hate those god damn sacrificing Necros, i have to heal them more then any of the tanks.

The Ages · Jul 09, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

I Think alot of it stems from the basics of Most MMO's

Do Damage (Mages)
Take Damage (Warriors)
Counter Damage (Healers)

In most peoples minds thats all there is to it, They dont see the aid the other class(s) Can Provide, There for the bulk of the player base thinks if your not one of these class' you are nothing but waisted space. The Holy Trinity as its put in most games.

Indigo · Jul 09, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by velvetbunny

As an ELE i love a Necro on my team when they use Well of Power or Blood Ritual.

As a MONK, i hate those god damn sacrificing Necros, i have to heal them more then any of the tanks.

Blood Ritual and Blood is Power are both sacrifices. I understand what you're saying, but you can't have it both ways.

As a Necro, I hate the fact that everyone seems to just assume that because every 12 year old who plays one uses minions, that I do as well. There is more than one way to be successful in this game.

100% agree with the original poster.

Nightsorrow · Jul 09, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

I agreee, my main character was a Necro/Mesmer - and I found/fine it SO hard to get good teams for Ring Of Fire/Abbadons Mouth/Hells Precipice let alone Fissure / UW. I've never even been in UW - never managed to get a group. People assume I do nothing because there's no immediate visible effect from me. No pyrotechnics, no lightning bolts - just me casting .. alot. The only visible one is Well of Blood - when I get some thanks from Warriors for the +6 life regen.

The teams that DO accept me seem to find I'm actually quite handy to have around - especially monks. +7 Energy Regen when they want it - in exchange for a quick heal. True that sacrificing alot of life means Monks need to heal me more, but when I'm not sacrificing - Barbed Signet + Vampiric Gaze means I need healing less during firefights. Then there's Empathy and Backfire - which people don't notice, but help all the same. Not to mention that as soon as a healer dies, I'll res signet + use blood is power - full life revive quickly, with high energy regen.

I don't quite know where this has gone .. but hey what the hell - if at least 1 person reads it and realises Necro's help (assuming they previously thought they weren't much use) - it acheived something.

[/Rant]

velvetbunny · Jul 09, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indigo

Blood Ritual and Blood is Power are both sacrifices. I understand what you're saying, but you can't have it both ways.

As a Necro, I hate the fact that everyone seems to just assume that because every 12 year old who plays one uses minions, that I do as well. There is more than one way to be successful in this game.

100% agree with the original poster.

That post was more of a joke then anything

. I don't care if they sacrifice when I'm playing ELE,

since i don't have to deal with healing them.

I just have an automatic fear of Necro's in my party when i play Monk now because of one annoying experience. The first time i took my Monk to FoW with a Necro in the party, he would drop to like 50% health or less every 5 seconds in the middle of huge fights, it drove me nuts keeping him alive.

Crix Lionheart · Jul 09, 2005, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by eventhorizen

lol, yup.

Almost every monk I meet considers themselves either the greatest tactician thats ever lived, or the most important creature in Tyria apart from Dwayna.
A good monk, which is rare, is often the single most important team member. I was in a group doing a mission where lots of poison was flying about. I said to the monk, 'monk im dying'. 5 seconds later I fall over dead from health degen.
I mean WTF? It doesnt matter if your the greatest character ever in the history of Guild Wars, your job is to keep us alive, so you do it period.

Monks do tend to be the scapegoat whenever the party dies however. I'm sure most monks do their best (which may not always be enough) to keep the party alive because they want to win the mission as much as you do. But you can't storm into battle on your own, say you're dying, and then 5 seconds later get killed and blame the monk. I play a monk and often, especially when poison is a factor, run out of energy when healing the group. Therefore, you can't always blame your healer, even though they are very important.

Red Locust · Jul 09, 2005, 05:46 PM // 17:46

I think you just gotta accept the fact that there are a lot of bad players in this game, just like in every other game (probably more since you gotta know what you're doing here). It's just more apparent here because in GW, success is heavily dependent on teamwork.

Kishin · Jul 09, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by eventhorizen

lol, yup.

Almost every monk I meet considers themselves either the greatest tactician thats ever lived, or the most important creature in Tyria apart from Dwayna.
A good monk, which is rare, is often the single most important team member. I was in a group doing a mission where lots of poison was flying about. I said to the monk, 'monk im dying'. 5 seconds later I fall over dead from health degen.
I mean WTF? It doesnt matter if your the greatest character ever in the history of Guild Wars, your job is to keep us alive, so you do it period.

Same with warriors. My main is a Warrior, but I totally hate other warriors. If im in a team with another warrior they will start competing with me instantly, theyll use sprint inbetween mobs for some reason, and in higher levels due to their high death ratio theyll usually be massivly tanked and about as dangerous as a cold.

Anyway each class has its faux pax stereotype, sad fact is thats the most common type of the class you will encounter.

If you're talking about missions like the Wilds and Maguuma Spiders, or any of the Kryta missions with Skeleton Rangers, it is almost pointless for a Monk to cure your poison rather than just simply heal you, since Apply Poison means you're only going to get re poisoned ont he next hit.

Also, never, ever tell a Monk to heal you. They know your lifebar better than you do, as they've been staring at it the entire map. Put it this way: How would you feel if you were an Elementalist and someone kept saying 'cast spells please'? The Monk knows you're dying, and usually there's a reason if they don't do anything about it.

redsman1 · Jul 09, 2005, 06:03 PM // 18:03

well as a player you do have to tailor your skills for the mission. if you know its lots of poison bring a self heal, lots of knockdown bring a stance, groups that like to bunch bring the nukes. a lot of people find one thing and stick with it no matter what the occasion, which can be very bad. i never complain about professions just the people playing them. we do have primaries for a reason, i expect you to be focused on it unless the group asks you to switch up for whatever reason.

Mercury Angel · Jul 09, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishin

If you're talking about missions like the Wilds and Maguuma Spiders, or any of the Kryta missions with Skeleton Rangers, it is almost pointless for a Monk to cure your poison rather than just simply heal you, since Apply Poison means you're only going to get re poisoned ont he next hit.

Also, never, ever tell a Monk to heal you. They know your lifebar better than you do, as they've been staring at it the entire map. Put it this way: How would you feel if you were an Elementalist and someone kept saying 'cast spells please'? The Monk knows you're dying, and usually there's a reason if they don't do anything about it.

Also, 2 other possible explanations off the top of my head:

1) Protection focused monk. Degeneration sucks to a protection monk. Sure, they can cure conditions and cause healing simultaneously, but start laying down the degeneration hexes and there's not much they can do unless they've packed Divine Boon. Signet of Devotion is likely to be the only direct heal they have.
2) Out of range. Spells have a range limit, and some people forget it. The monk would like to heal you, but by the time they get in range, you're dead. In a PvP match where I was a monk, and the only monk in the party, the party split in 2 and everyone said I sucked... Would have told them off were I not busy healing, followed by a short timer to leave, but in a nut-shell, they forced me to trek back and forth across the map in an attempt to heal them, and at times, people were getting damaged too rapidly to do that, so I had to stick with one group while the other died.
Other times, versus heavy spike groups, someone would go a little too far ahead and be dead before I got in range. (You know the deal, where everyone's inching cautiously, but one person charges ahead unexpectedly into the other team and faces the blunt of the attacks from 4 people.)

Azmodan · Jul 09, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I play a monk primary and don't have a problem with any of the other classes. Just the people that play them. I have met some awesome warriors that require little healing. The ones that are the problem are the ones that are either too cheap to get good armor or have a crappy build. My first character was a warrior and rarely needed major healing. Warriors have too many skills to help keep themselves alive, if you use them.

It's the bad players that take two hits, die, and complain about the monk. I have seen some very bad monks also. I have been in groups with 2 monks where the second monk came as a healer and never cast a spell.

As for Necros and Mesmers, I would love to have atleast one of each in every party I'm in. Those are 2 very effective classes when played by good people. My secondary is Mesmer and I like to bring at least one mesmer skill with me. But, do you think anyone notices when I use power drain? No! There is never a second thought given to why an enemy caster isn't casting. Melee enemies are of very little threat in this game. It's the casters that can really screw up a party. I mean, who really likes going up against a mesmer mob?

Here is a funny movie about how one bad player can spoil an otherwise, very organized group. Movie

Aetherfukz · Jul 10, 2005, 01:31 AM // 01:31

As a Monk player myself I really, really hate those players that shout "HEAL!" and stuff like that. As other posters said, I am a (Healing) Monk so I heal as good and much as I can. Lifebars are about the only thing I see in battles.
There are so many options why I am not healing you AT THAT EXACT MOMENT. Maybe I have only 2 energy left, maybe I have a hex on me that would kill me if I casted another spell, maybe you are out of range, maybe maybe. And some people thing that EVERYONE has to survive every given fight, no matter how hard it may be. As a monk the job is to keep the TEAM, if those players even understand that word, alive. And if some trying-to-tank ele who's screaming "HEAL!" has to bite the dirt for the really good tanking warrior to survive, I am more than happy.

I think the next time I will just scream over stuff like "CAST" "ATTACK" "MOVE" "SPELL" and stuff. That would be hilarious. Or even something that nobody seems to know how to execute... "PRESS T!"

Teufel Eldritch · Jul 10, 2005, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by velvetbunny

I just have an automatic fear of Necro's in my party when i play Monk now because of one annoying experience. The first time i took my Monk to FoW with a Necro in the party, he would drop to like 50% health or less every 5 seconds in the middle of huge fights, it drove me nuts keeping him alive.

Not to drag this OT but...don't heal the life sacrificing Necros as much as you are. Any competent life sacrificing Necro(in the PUG PvE world at least) has some form of health recovery. Life Siphon, Vampiric Gaze, Parasitic Bond, Insidous Parasite, whatever. If he is relying on you to totally make up his sacrificial health loss(when he doesnt even know you) then he isn't to bright of a Necro. At least IMO.

Sagius Truthbarron · Jul 10, 2005, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Everytime I play my monk in the HoH people try to get him to call. What? I'm the monk. I can't call - "y u no call monk?" "Becuase I'm looking at the health bars!"

Also, I noticed that alot of Necroes aggro, very suicida, dumb and alot of monks do it in Fissure of Woe. Some stereotypes that I have that don't seem too common